How powerful is the White Phoenix of The Crown?

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How powerful is the White Phoenix of The Crown?


Votes: 6090

She is one with the phoenix force and she is the phoenix in one of its purest form

I see the white phoenix as when the phoenix and the host bond with each other and become soo compatible that they are one, it is a state where the host bonds with the “phoenix work” thereby becoming one with the entity and having total access to its power but still, she is but another major aspect of the true phoenix while the true phoenix is different from white phoenixes

so let’s begin

she can warp reality on any scale and can also heal universes that aren’t working…as white phoenix of the crown, Jean possessed the power to control an entire universe at a sub-atomic level at the very least.. she plucked the reality of Earth-15104 from the omniverse and dissected it from the current 616 universe.. she then controlled the 616 universe atom by atom, turning back time by controlling the temporal axis within the universe, doing all this while manifesting the universe in the palm of her hands

She also has direct access to the true m’kraan crystal

the true crystal known as the nexus of all realities connects to all marvel realities as well beyond (outer marvel’s cosmology)

The white hot room is her heart and that room trancends almost eveything in marvel…

In defenders: beyond

it was explained to us that the celestials created the beyonders and made them far more powerful than they are for certain reasons (read carefully below) and the beyonder’s are beyond everything in marvel omniverse and also beyond the narratives

The beyonder’s are reality engineers themselves and the secret wars beyonder entire event and his coming into marvel was when molecule man poked a hole in the womb space he was forming in which resulted in him getting out and having the mindset of a child because he wasn’t mature yet.. so he got corrupted by entering marvel plots and stories which turned him insane, forcing his infinite mind into finite and he stated that fixing him meant Speed running certain larva stages until he is grown and eligible enough to join his own people in the beyond realm, in the engine room of creation…. He wasn’t actually rectonned, all his “rectons” (as you might view it) are just procedures taken to fix him (he is going through stages). He added that his secret war version as well as other version are just the same being going through stages (Omega beyonder was aware of his two “retcons”, when he became a Cosmic Cube and a Inhuman) he is always a little broken but he is fixed for now ( which basically means he is not rectonned, but he also states that he might be broken again, which means he might be rectonned by another writer)… even tigra knew what he was (secret wars beyonder back in those days) and she asked if he was the same beyonder and he literally confirms it, showed her, and explained in details what exactly happened… so every versions are still the same person going through stages… this omega beyonder is a fully realized beyonder who acquired the title of an ivory king and also, the beyonder’s are confirmed in this same comic to be linear beings by the ivory kings themselves which further explains the “stages” part

once again, they are beyond narratives, they can manipulate the stories and true narratives and they see the cosmic cycles as mere experiments! the transition from the 7th cosmos to the 8th was an experiment (a necessary one which was carried out by them)

Then after that, it was literally confirmed that the ivory kings power their “engines of creation” from the higher realms, even the beyonder stated things would get dangerous even FOR HIM in the higher realms

The higher realm was confirmed to be THE WHITE HOT ROOM! The white hot room basically powers the engine of creation which the ivory kings uses to manipulate narratives and stories in marvel..

The same realm that the beyonder stated it is dangerous even for him!

And the rest of the ivory kings/beyonders referred to the white hot room as BEYOND the BEYOND!

the engine of creation contains stories and narratives which are powered by the white hot room

White phoenix of the crown can casually trancend this room…. She is not only above the entire beyond realm but also above the white hot room that was seen as a BEYOND to the beyonder’s and she is also beyond the true narratives and stories because the beyonder’s already are and her realm is actually what powers narratives and stories!

what eternity is to the spider man/captain America, that is what the powers of the beyonder is to eternity as a whole (infinitely more powerful than eternity is as well as his other cosmic siblings)

eternity who is literally the OMNIVERSE itself

Yes eternity own being is the entire omniverse

Each living things are platonic as well as the universe being above space and time, realities and dimensions

eternity sees all these as stories for fiction

the beyonder’s again are beyond stories/narratives… GOS Loki couldn’t manipulate them with the laws of narratives, the beyonder easily negated Loki’s attack (laws of narratives)…

the beyond realm is completely outside of narratives that’s why the comic borders are replaced with engines… loki then used the laws of narratives to even the odds a little by forcing the beyonder to fall prey to the narratives, doing that, the comic borders changed to regular rectangular borders because they are now in comic panels

The beyonder then negated Loki’s narrative force shifting it back to engine borders

Then he himself manipulated the laws of narratives dragging everyone as well as HIMSELF in comic panels and falling prey to the LIMITS of a super story

Then blue marvel tagged him

blue marvel was able to stop him because the beyonder’s themselves stated that they covered themselves in matter so that finite beings (who are bound by the stories) can perceive them and mainly because of the limits of a superstory as explained above , even GOS loki confirmed that they are underdogs compared to the beyonder’s

and no, that beyonder didn’t die, he is infinite, he clothed himself in matter and projected himself in a way for the understanding of the finite beings… he still has his true form (what we saw is just a finite aspect of the beyonder who was limited)

you can even pick up on this by viewing his colleagues reaction after he died, they didn’t even talk about him (it was like nothing happened to him), all they did was to talk about the beyoender we all know (the broken one) and how the white hot room is above them… and also, the broken one didn’t resist the story arc that loki put on him that was why he ended up chasing them to the white hot room but his colleague resisted it above

the beyonder’s clash with america + eternity’s mask was making the beyond realm unstable which was enough to kill the defenders (even loki) if they stayed longer

And also, the beyonder categorized loki as a finite being implying that he is infinitely more powerful than god of stories loki…

the same God of stories loki that is beyond narratives and stories and was the god of creation of stories

He could walk out of comic books

The same loki than can amputate stories in marvel and seal them up in a story sphere and even become the writer as well as the narrator of the story switching between panels and creating dialogues of explainations as he saved the entirety of the infinite stories of the Gods

He defeated king loki

who was able to run through comic panels

And even resist a RECTON from the writers

the beyonder’s can also remove characters from continuity and they are also aware of writers rectons

Again, the beyonder’s are also beyond the omniverse

Their realm is beyond reality, outside of everything as in outside marvel’s events/stories

the beyonder’s are beyond the earliest sparks of narratives

They are beyond oblivion

they are beyond the concept of magic (5th cosmos)

they are beyond the primal celestials not current regular celestials, I am talking about the earliest and strongest celestials who are capable of tearing apart the firmament/omniverse and creating the second iteration of marvel omniverse… the primal celestials are like the angels of marvel (marvel version of angels) and the beyonder’s can literally one shot them

the beyonder’s are also beyond the cosmos of archetypes (4th cosmos) as well as other cosmos after and before… they are entirely beyond the omniverse!

The cosmos of archetype contains beings as powerful as being the END OF ALL STORIES

archetypal galactus is a “what must be” and cannot be fought only by concepts such as passion or love…. His steps alone strains reality

The end of all stories can be nullified by love and passion

transforming it to the start of new narratives and stories…

the beyonder’s are far beyond primal beings (3rd cosmos)

These primal beings battle to save marvel stories or consume the stories into nothingness (the life bringer vs the great dragon, with the life bringer representing existence and the dragon representing pure nothingness threatening to consume future stories in marvel while the life bringer is fighting to save each and every story)… a fight between IS and IS NOT

Staying in the 3rd cosmos for too long would make an individual loose the very concept of eternity/time

Which means those bound to stories would slowly fade from the comic panels


The anti all (the great dragon) is the great nothing and if nothing was fought in their time (that is the current cosmos we are in, 8th cosmos), they would be fighting back anti all, anti all is that great void that represents pure nothingness and threatens marvel’s continuity

They are beyond beings who cannot be fought only dismissed by concepts such as love, joy or pride (6th cosmos)

Beyonder’s are beyond the concept of science and maths

Beyonder’s are above all these which also makes the white phoenix of the crown as well as true phoenix even more above these because she is above the reaches of the beyonder’s as well as above their realm as a whole! The beyonder’s have their true forms which resides in the beyond realm but they have to cover themselves in matter so as to be able to be comprehended by characters!

The child beyonder claimed he embodies the beyond as a child in secret wars while omega beyonder further explained to us that back then he was uneducated and corrupted (and also an insane child) and confirms the beyond is below the white hot room….

the defenders: beyond comic was clearly referring to secret wars beyonder II as well as his other versions because they are the same…For those still arguing about it

She is more powerful than the entire beyonder’s (and their true selves, their true selves reside in the beyond realm) and more powerful than their realm as a whole…since she fully bonded with an aspect of the phoenix, in the tree of life



Chesed (Hebrew: חֶסֶד, also Romanized ḥesed) is a Hebrew word that means ‘kindness or love between people’, specifically of the devotional piety of people towards God as well as of love or mercy of God towards humanity. It is frequently used in Psalms in the latter sense, where it is traditionally translated “loving kindness” in English translations.

In Jewish theology it is likewise used of God’s love for the Children of Israel, and in Jewish ethics it is used for love or charity between people.[1] Chesed in this latter sense of ‘charity’ is considered a virtue on its own, and also for its contribution to tikkun olam(repairing the world). It is also considered the foundation of many religious commandments practiced by traditional Jews, especially interpersonal commandments.

Chesed is also one of the ten Sephirot on the Kabbalistic Tree of Life. It is given the association of kindness and love, and is the first of the emotive attributes of the sephirot.

In its positive is used of mutual benevolence, mercy or pity between people, of devotional piety of people towards God, as well as the grace, favour or mercy of God towards people.[3]

This is the right hand of God.” Chesed manifests God’s absolute, unlimited benevolence, kindness and love” which is TOAA weapon and power

“The roaring flame of mercy”

for the phoenix being TI’FERET itself

Tiferet (“Adornment”,[dubious – discuss] Hebrew: תִּפְאֶרֶת

[tifˈ(ʔ)eʁet]) alternatively Tifaret, Tifereth, Tyfereth or Tiphereth, is the sixth sefira in the kabbalistic Tree of Life. It has the common association of “Spirituality”, “Balance”, “Integration”, “Beauty”, “Miracles”, and “Compassion”.[citation needed]

In the Bahir it states: “Sixth is the adorned, glorious, delightful throne of glory, the house of the world to come. Its place is engraved in wisdom as it says ‘God said: Let there be light, and there was light.'” [1]

Tiferet is the force that integrates the Sefira of Chesed (“compassion”) and Gevurah(“Strength, or Judgment (din)”). These two forces are, respectively, expansive (giving) and restrictive (receiving). Either of them without the other could not manifest the flow of Divine energy; they must be balanced in perfect proportion by balancing compassion with discipline. This balance can be seen in the role of Tiferet, wherein the conflicting forces are harmonized, and creation flowers forth. Tiferet also balances Netzach and Hod in a similar manner. In that case Hod can be seen as the intellect where Netzach is seen as emotion.

The Names of God associated with Tiferet is Tetragrammaton Eloah Va Daath. The Archangel of this sphere is Raphael. Melachim(kings) is the Angelic order associated with Tiferet, and the planetary/astrological correspondence of Tiferet is the sun. The Qliphah of Tiferet is represented by the demonic order Thagirion, ruled by the Archdemon Belphegor. The symbol associated with this sphere is a majestic King.

Tiferet also occupies a place on the middle pillar, and can be seen as a lower reflection of Kether, as well as a higher reflection of Yesod and Malkuth. Tiferet relates to the Sun, and as such, it takes a central place in the lower face of the Tree of Life, much in the same manner that the Sun is at the center of the Solar System. It is not the center of the universe, as one could perhaps argue Kether to be, but rather it is the center of our local astronomical system. Nonetheless, it is the Sun that gives light and life, even though it did not create itself. Tiferet can be seen as a metaphor for these same attributes.

Tiferet is the middle of the tree. Five Sefirot surround it: above are Chesed at the right (south) and Gevurah at the left (north), and below are Netzach at the right, Hod at the left, and Yesod directly below. Together these six are a single entity, Zer Anpin, which is the masculine counterpart of the feminine sefira Malkuth. In certain contexts, Tiferet alone represents all the sefirot of Zer Anpin, so that the entire tree appears with only five sefirot: Keter, Chochmah, Binah, Tiferet, and Malkhut. This explains why the beyonder’s tap power from the white hot room so as to power their entire realm

“I am the glory at the heart of all things”

Tif’eret is seen as a lower reflection of keter

According to the book Bahir: “What are the ten utterances? The first is supreme crown, blessed be His name and His people.”[2]

The first Sephirah is called the Crown, since a crown is worn above the head. The Crown therefore refers to things that are above the mind’s abilities of comprehension. All of the other Sephirot are likened to the body which starts with the head and winds its way down into action. But the crown of a king lies above the head and connects the concept of “monarchy”, which is abstract and intangible, with the tangible and concrete head of the king.[citation needed]

This first Sefirah represents the primal stirrings of intent in the Ein Soph (infinity), or the arousal of desire to come forth into the varied life of being.[2] But in this sense, although it contains all the potential for content, it contains no content itself, and is therefore called ‘Nothing’, ‘The Hidden Light’, ‘The air that cannot be grasped’. Being desire to bring the world into being, Keter is absolute compassion.[3]

so the white phoenix “of the crown” actually has it meaning!


Gevurah or geburah (Hebrew: גבורה,


‘strength’), is the fifth sephirah in the kabbalistic tree of life, and it is the second of the emotive attributes of the sephirot. It sits below Binah, across from Chesed and above Hod.

Gevurah is “the essence of judgment (DIN) and limitation”, and corresponds to awe and the element of fire.[1]

In the Bahir it is written “And who are the Officers? We learned that there are three. Strength (Gevurah) is the Officer of all the Holy Forms to the left of the Blessed Holy One. He is Gabriel.”

According to some modern sources, Gevurah is associated with the color red.[2][citation needed]

Gevurah is the fifth of the ten Sefirot and second of the emotive attributes in Creation, and which corresponds to the second day of creation[3] (Zohar 2:127b). In the Bahir it says “What is the fifth (utterance)? Fifth is the great fire of God, of which it says ‘let me see no more of this great fire, lest I die’ (Deut 18:16). This is the left hand of God”.[4]

Gevurah is understood as God’s mode of punishing the wicked and judging humanity in general. It is the foundation of stringency, absolute adherence to the letter of the law, and strict meting out of justice. This stands in contrast to Chesed.

We thus speak of God’s primary modes of action as being the kindness and unaccountability of Chesed, versus the stringency and strict accountability of Gevurah. It is called “might” because of the power of God’s absolute judgment.

Gevurah is associated in the soul with the power to restrain one’s innate urge to bestow goodness upon others, when the recipient of that good is judged to be unworthy and liable to misuse it. As the force which measures and assesses the worthiness of Creation, Gevurah is also referred to in Kabbalah as “Midat Hadin” (“the attribute of judgment”). It is the restraining might of Gevurah which allows one to overcome his enemies, be they from without or from within (his evil inclination).

“The roaring flame of terrible judgment”

The white hot room is the dream of the divine creator/true nexus of all realities and white phoenix of the crown can transcend it

the beyond realm is YESOD…

Yesod (Hebrew: יסוד “foundation”) is a sephirah or node in the kabbalistic Tree of Life, a system of Jewish philosophy.[1] Yesod, located near the base of the Tree, is the sephirah below Hod and Netzach, and above Malkuth (the kingdom). It is seen as a vehicle allowing movement from one thing or condition to another (the power of connection).[2] Yesod, Kabbalah, and the Tree of Life are Jewish concepts adopted by various philosophical systems including Christianity, New Age Eastern-based mysticism, and Western esoteric practices.[3]

According to Jewish Kabbalah, Yesod is the foundation upon which God has built the world. It also serves as a transmitter between the sephirot above, and the reality below. The light of the upper sephirot gather in Yesod and are channelled to Malkuth below. In this manner, Yesod is associated with the sexual organs. The masculine Yesod collects the vital forces of the sephirot above, and transmits these creative and vital energies into the feminine Malkuth below. Yesod channels, Malkuth receives. In turn, it is through Malkuth that the earth is able to interact with the divinity.[4]

Yesod plays the role of collecting and balancing the different and opposing energies of Hod and Netzach, and also from Tiferetabove it, storing and distributing it throughout the world. It is likened to the ‘engine-room’ of creation. The Cherubim is the angelic choir connected to Yesod, headed by the ArchangelGabriel. In contrast, the demonic order in the Qliphothic sphere opposite of Yesod is Gamaliel, ruled by the Archdemon Lilith.

The phoenix is the heart of the Kabbalah (Tree of life also known as Tif’eret/ God’s glory) and she already surpasses it (where she trancends the white hot room)

she is HESED, TOAA love and mercy

She is GEVURAH, TOAA wrath and judgment

Malkhut is every cosmos that has existed and would exist in marvel!



Votes: 6114

She is incredibly powerful.

This answer will be my Phoenix masterpiece.

AEKC made such a wonderful and in-depth answer, and really I wouldn’t be adding much to it, but I wanted to make my own.

Jean Grey as the White Phoenix represents her complete compatibility with the Phoenix Force. She and Phoenix are one and the same. The Phoenix Force is an entity with the ability to destroy and restart all of creation. It possesses the power to manipulate time, reality, and life itself on a grand scale.

We’ll get the obvious feat out of the way. White Phoenix of the Crown was able to telekinetically manipulate every atom in a universe.

She was able to manipulate the timeline and cut off the future of that universe and exert control over the entirety of it. This is extremely impressive, especially since a universe in Marvel can contain multiple realms like Asgard, multiple hells, and dimensions etc etc. Now, let’s move on to some more interesting stuff.

Jean Grey with the Pheonix is far more powerful than any other host. Her compatibility is unmatched

This puts her above any other user of the host, such as the Phoenix Five, Echo, Rachel, and Hope Summers. And each host has some incredibly powerful feats.

Hope just by tapping into the Phoenix has been able to solo the Avengers, which included Red Hulk, Thing, and a Colossus enhanced by Cytorrak

Jean is more powerful than all members of the Phoenix Five, and as such she can accomplish the exact things they can. During AvX, Cyclops was made a host rather than Hope, who was the desired host the Phoenix had come for. With only 1/5 of the Phoenix he was able to casually stop Thor’s attack with a finger.

and then oneshotted him.

He’s able to tear through dimensions, gained telekinetic sensitivity that allowed him to read DNA, stretched to other parts of the planet, and was able to read multiple minds, while in the midst of fighting, and killed and then resurrected people. When Cyclops gained the full Phoenix, he was able to singlehandedly fight the Avengers and X-men at once

The second time Cyclops was at full power, was during Secret Wars. Phoenix Cyclops was able to harm Doom with the powers of the Beyonders

(He got negged in the end though😔)

What’s notable is that this Doom is powered by the Beyonders. The Beyonders were able to kill the Living Tribunal, the cosmic entities and create universes. A single Beyonder was able to kill off the entire Celestial Race for an entire universe

Celestials are threats to entire pantheons, and are more powerful than multiversal Skyfathers like Odin. Truly impressive.

Emma at 25% power was capable of turning off every mind on the planet at once. Even those with mental defenses.

Namor was able to fight with an entire roster of Avenges, which included Thor, Red Hulk, Thing, and Dr Strange.

He only lost after he had fought Thor and Wanda came in to knock him out. Keeping in mind that it took all Wanda ha to knock him out, and chaos magic was her specific weakness. And BP stated all they ever managed to do was knock him down

Colossus himself stated that he could kill both the Avengers and the entire planet and barely lift a finger

So she’s already more powerful than anyone on Earth.

As the perfect host, Jean can even reclaim parts of the Phoenix that is dwelling in other avatars.

Next up, Phoenix Jean is well, a Phoenix. The Phoenix Force is a force of life, death, and rebirth, and has demonstrated power over such things.

As such, Jean has the ability to resurrect after death. Good luck trying to put her down.

As WPOTC, Jean has direct access to the M’Kraan crystal. This crystal is a nexus of realities and connects to all other realities in Marvel, including the realm of the Beyonders. So Jean has the ability to traverse the Marvel multiverse.

As a host to the Phoenix, she would thus be able to do anything it can do.

The Phoenix is a force that can not only restart all of creation, but also destroy it in its entirety.

The Phoenix Force has the ability to cut out whole realities and remake them. This fits into its theme of “burning away what doesn’t work”.

It is stated that the Phoenix Force is the collection of all psionic energy in the MULTIVERSE!

So, think about how many people exist in Marvel with awesome psionic abilities. So every Professor X in the multiverse, every Nate Grey in the multiverse, every Emma Frost, every Quentin Quire, every Moondragon, all of them in the multiverse and more are part of the sum of psionic energy in the Phoenix Force.

Due to being the host of the Phoenix, she can access and dwell inside the White Hot Room, the heart of the Phoenix. This can give her even more abilities.

Going into the White Hot Room can protect a person from a chaos wave that rewrote the multiverse. During House of M, Rachel Grey and Betsy Braddock escaped to the WHR and thus were not affected by the reality manipulation.

It is a place that allows her as a host to heal over time until she can return

And she even has the ability to make people permanent residents of it after they’ve been killed, as she did for her family after the Shi’ar death commandos

And now to some more extensive and in depth analysis.

During Defenders Beyond, we find out quite a bit of information regarding the Beyonder and the Phoenix Force. For one, the Beyonder was created by the Celestials to be far more powerful than them

and is beyond Eternity aka the Marvel Omniverse, and also beyond narratives.

God of Stories Loki attempted to attack a Beyonder with his powers over the narrative, but the Beyonder easily overcame it.

These Beyonders state that they are infinitely above the Defenders, which includes GoS Loki. This Loki is capable of containing stories of the gods themselves inside of spheres

We learn that the Beyonders are reality engineers, and and possess engines that draw power from a dimension that’s even higher than theirs. These engines would contain the coming threat to only a few realities

They are capable of removing people from continuity, even those as powerful as other Beyonders

And the Beyonders are more powerful than the first Celestials, those who shattered the First Firmamant

Now why is all of this stuff with the Beyonder being above narratives and the multiverse so important? Because this dimension, as described by the Beyonder, is dangerous to traverse, even for the Beyonders themselves. At the end of this issue, we find that said dimension is in fact the White Hot Room itself.

So the White Hot Room, aka the heart of the Phoenix is too dangerous even for beings like the Beyonder.

The Beyonder later reaffirms this by ADMITTING INFERIORITY to the Phoenix Force itself. Even going so far as to say that fighting the Phoenix would have the same outcome as him just tossing a carrot into a blender.

How powerful is this Beyonder? This is the same Beyonder who can tank attacks from Molecule Man that can destroy billions of dimensions. Same Beyonder whose power was so great that the difference in power between him and Eternity was as great as that between Eternity and Deadpool.

And Eternity is an omniverse

Also, Jean Grey with the Phoenix could transcend this same White Hot Room

So yeah, her power is great, her abilities varied, her outfits on point, her drip immaculate, her story peak, her title majestic, her relationships the best, and her family healthy.

All in all, she’s extremely powerful. Does she solo your fave? Probably.

(will be edited)

Also follow that space of mine. It’s uh, it’s gonna be great.

See ya!

Jessica Moore

Votes: 2081

The White Phoenix of the Crow might just be the most powerful being in the Marvel Universe, even if she’s still a mystery.

The mythos of the Phoenix Force has evolved almost constantly ever since it debuted in Chris Claremont and Dave Cockrum’s X-Men #101. Over the years, the Phoenix has gone from being a strictly X-Men-related phenomenon to one of the most powerful and feared cosmic entities in the entire Marvel Universe. The few beings capable of hosting it can tap into its incredible power and use it for both good and ill, either to protect life or to destroy it.

Traditionally, the Phoenix host’s mastery of the Force and their intent is signaled by the color of their costume. The green Phoenix suit means the host is (usually) more or less in control of themselves and the Force and intend to use it for good. However, the deep red costume means that the host has succumbed to the Force and their own inner darker instincts like the Dark Phoenix. However, there’s another, much rarer costume only ever seen a few times: the white costume of the “White Phoenix Of The Crown,” which is effectively the final form of the Phoenix.

Simone Campagna

Votes: 1517

Let’s look at what the Phoenix offer in this form

first:full control over every aspect of the phoenix and total phoenix at your disposal:Uncanny X-men issue 517 and X-men Kingbreaker issue 4:the phoenix recalled its aspects to give all of her power to jean grey

“please not now….mom”

It was jean who controlled and called back the phoenix from cuckoos,rachel and rook’shir

Yes Jean from the white hot room in her white phoenix of the crown can claim the other pecies of the phoenix (X-men:Phoenix endsong issue 5)

Avengers vs x-men issue 12:she did it again

classic x-men issue 43:she created a replica of

Matthew Coles Larkins

Votes: 8675

White Phoenix would easily win.

Never Queen, if we were to be honest is one of those character who seem impressive in the idea she represent something that should be somewhat powerful but in actuality falls straight short.

See the thing about her is she has the possibility to be quite powerful in the cosmic landscape. However the problem with it is she has to many short coming. As an abstracfication to the idea of all possibilities, you would think she could do more than what she has shown.

As the embodiment of every future possibility, she can inflict her powers upon whom she takes dominion over. In this case, the Silver Surfer and as we see the power even for Surfer was too much as expected because she is an abstract and should be above the Surfer.

However as her AP can be measured to be around the higher up, she doesn’t have the best durability.

Make note there is this sword called “The Edge” with the capability of cutting the fabric of reality itself. The place in which all things strive is the Outside because it is sepeartwd from reality it can be cut from the inside to access the Outside.

This weapon could cut the womb of The Queen of Nevers and take her heart which drastically limits her power. Now you may say “wait, she is an abstract thus not psychical.”

Well yes but you see when comics start messing with the cosmic landscape, a common occurrence usually happens. It seems that with history given these powerful cosmic entities, the writer simply deduce that they shalln’t be gazed upon in their actuality. Thus, making these Abstract appear more Anthropomorphic but staying on the subject this is a clear limitation. This happens to explain what seems too hard for us to comprehend but it does take away the power the Queen of Never has. It seems there are limitations to all possibilities. She could not foresee what will be the outcome of the battle when her heart was taken. It seems that what is unlikely is her downfall if she could not see a defeat. It almost seems ironic how her power contradicts herself. She is essentially a paramour to Eternity as all possibilities are received from all things and vice versa. This means her heart is what powers those set impossibilities to be possible if not this destroys the purpose of what can “never

Despite everything when in a weakened state she can also die. It seems that she is needed for infinite possibilities but never truly a necessity because everything will have their own destiny because she never was it. However in turn it will be only one destiny everyone is bound to without Will.

If you seem confuse on what she is and what she represents then…. I don’t blame you. The thing is she usually dweels in the place that “Couldn’t be” that “Shouldn’t be” is essentially a place of space without time and that time without space or in other words lies in the heart of the Mystery outside the Universe called “The Outside.” This speaks volumes because the Outside takes a toll on your mind. This is where all possibilities derive from one being, she doesn’t control fate she plays it out but if need be can manipulate set fate eventually, everything is the free will to make their destiny. This is why Never Queen is honest and not as powerful as people set her out to be. Remember this she can make “possibilities” but in the end, they can be changed so she never fully has access to everything someone can do because these choices help break away from her grasp even to every infinite possibility there are infinite chances.

If anything could happen it’s a possibility but if anything is to be then it has a change to that possibility. Something she cannot perceive.

That’s her power and weakness but let’s see what she can actually do.

Her main source of power derives from what the user is willing to do. When this happens they create their own possibility and when they do this comes into one of the stories held by Never Queen who overseers all the possibilities from that one as well as the other possibilities. It is like an infinite loop.

She plays this lower scheme to see the bigger picture but when you make this individual choice it can change every possibility so much that some things cannot be perceived by the Queen of Nevers. She controls all possibilities or play it out but the destiny follows the root of the beings and in some cases is out of possibilities if it were pre-destined to happened which is her 2nd weakness or at least a flaw with her.

In turn, if it is a possibility it will renounce back into her as something she can view it.

The funny thing is Never Queen is the paramour to Eternity because he is the sum to all that is and this play unto Never Queen. After all, she is to see these possibilities of those being. So when Doom had the powers of the Beyonders he essentially control those set possibilities and the only thing that held him back from viewing all this at once is that Beyonders may be somewhat “Omnipotent” but they lack the resolve of Omniscient but it stand still Beyonders are above Never Queen and Eternity.

So if everything is to be the Will of Doom, Never Queen cannot do much with this being said anything one who can create can make themselves their possibilities as well as other without no hearsay from Never Queen. So even the Shaper of Worlds is somewhat more powerful than Never Queen.

So in most cases to have the powers of all possibilities she mainly relies on others to create hope and make a new change this forms a possibilities.

Eventually, even she will be surprised because if there is no possibilities to exist her need is no longer and the idea she once was will be gone. In this quote “All stories come to an End.”

It is also kinda dangerous for her to intertwine with Eternity in his plain because they are connected but when they are one then it mixes things up. There is no good explanation for it but the fight has to take place Outside.

So it can be also be vividly clear with the Cosmic Hierarchy she wouldn’t have much control against something like the Living Tribunal or The Logoz.

I will give her credit because when possibilities sport anything is possible it seems becomes bigger than itself. As one action can lead to many possibilities and some of those are the strongest thing they cannot be unwillingly forced to be taken.

So she has some powers but it springs from what can be and if you take that away she relies on the next. Suffice to say she actually is weak in terms of direct power.

She has a relationship with the Griever as she does with Eternity. With Eternity the sum of everything brings all possibilities with the Griever it is the end of those. So you can see she is like a buffer if existence existss their possibilities but those possibilities will come to an end like that of existence. Essentially they are the face of Existence almost like the Triune of Gods from Hindu.

Although she is powerful, she can also be underwhelming to which Phoenix responds to her in her defeat if they were ever to fight.

Essentially the Phoenix force is pretty much what all three represent. Which alone in status puts her above all 3 faces of existence. The Phoenix Force is representing life that is not born nor created yet and with it all of Creation and its enviable Destruction. It seems endless power force that fuels the necessary things for the upcoming existence. Essentially the connection or the nexus point to all the psionic energy in the Multiverse.

Being the ultimate existence to which when bonded to the life force for all Creation makes it so that no mortal or mutant could comprehend such powers. When in this and of that can only be 2nd to the Creator suppressing any beings to reach such power close to that of the Phoenix Force.

The White Phoenix is what the true potential of the Phoenix Force can achieve when merged with the host to create the perfect beings that symbolize not only all of existence but that of it destruction. Jean has done it once that even suppress the Dark Phoenix within her.

When doing this becomes the perfect Host or in general, the White Phoenix to whom all existence is its benefactor and to all can not come in its power. This may sound kinda lame but it is what it is. When this is the case there really isn’t a being that could take her on.

Phoenix Force in itself represent everything that is Life that the Force is and all that will be doom to its Destruction will be the Force. The Cosmos itself is a tri-factor to its fire of life.

With it, it has the capabilities of capacity far exceeding anyone in terms of power and destruction. A power that can match the Chaos Magic that exceeds through the Omniverse and rewrote reality.

Hope when with this power to acsend to White Phoenix felt the power she never felt. A power beyond Creation and that of evil. She essentially is what the One Above All would be in form representing Life and Creation itself and this isn’t exaggerated.

Everything that is originated from the place of death for everything which is also the afterlife of the Force Host and all that are forthcoming. The White Place it’s place the domain of the Phoenix that is Creation.

This White Hot Room is the very “Mystery” beyond where all things became “The Far Shore” and is outside of Time and Space outside of the possibilities Voids where it first emerged.

It’s everything that is what duality represents. When Life is so is it’s Death which goes to that of Creation and Destruction which the Phoenix is everything is within because it is the Life Force that connects everything.

Within the White Room that you can control pretty much all aspects of Life essentially makes you God in the sense the Creator behind all things. To which on any basis is what the Phoenix represent either way.

Now put it like this, with this Force and the merging into the White Phoenix you can make create life on any scale and this isn’t far fetching as Jean had done this before.

Take for example the Beyonder, a being capable of surpassing everything in Creation could recognize the power of the Force being that great despite his God-like Complex.

And take note the White Hot Room exists even Beyond the “Beyond” which is essentially the Engine Room of Creation and the Ivory Kings who mass murder the Cosmic Entity. The same Ivory Kings who are much beyond the Cosmic Hierarchy of the Multiverse and in turn even the Queen of Nevers are lower than the Phoenix.

So yeah Phoenix stomps.

Joanna Boheran

Votes: 7419

White Phoenix of the Crown Jean will either erase Wanda from existence before she can do anything or take her to the White Hot Room where Wanda would have no powers. Wanda has never beat a Dark Phoenix host either. Phoenix 5 don’t count as they only had partial Phoenix power. But she didn’t even beat Phoenix Cyclops, not even with the help of Hope Summers. It took Jean Grey herself telepathically interfering for Cyclops to stand down and part with the Phoenix.

Wanda vs Phoenix (without any host)…good bye Wanda. Phoenix can’t be destroyed as it’s literally powered by all life in the multiverse. Even if there was anyone who could defeat the Phoenix (certainly not Wanda), all life would end and Wanda with it.


Votes: 3406

Yes she does!

The raptors are aspects Created in the white hot room and sent to marvel stories to do the phoenix work and each are high omniversal-outerversal (at full power or depending on the experience and skill of the host as well as the compatibility the host shares with the force)

It stated that the white hot room is not the phoenix, the white hot room is where the phoenix is created

The room is one of the highest plane you reach without risking the abyss, it is where existence meets the real deal!

the true form of the phoenix manifest itself in the white hot room

And none of what we have been shown is her true form, just aspects, the same goes for the beyonder…(this is for people thinking her true form was shown)

The beyonder already confirmed that it is not their true form shown to we the readers… it was stated that infinite beings cannot be perceived/ comprehended by finite beings (this is really impressive because god of stories loki is one of the people the beyonder categorized as Finite, implying that the beyonder’s are infinitely more powerful than he is), so the beyonder’s clothed themselves in matter and projected that form to the defenders so they may understand them… this is basically a physical aspect of the beyonder’s covered in matter

The phoenix used it usual fire bird form to interact with the defenders because again, infinte beings cannot be perceived by finite beings….

Looking upon her true form is looking at three things of God at once…

ONE: God’s glory

she is of Tif’eret…In the Bahir it states: “Sixth is the adorned, glorious, delightful throne of glory, the house of the world to come. Its place is engraved in wisdom as it says ‘God said: Let there be light, and there was light.'” [1]

Tiferet is the force that integrates the Sefira of Chesed (“compassion”) and Gevurah(“Strength, or Judgment (din)”). These two forces are, respectively, expansive (giving) and restrictive (receiving). Either of them without the other could not manifest the flow of Divine energy; they must be balanced in perfect proportion by balancing compassion with discipline. This balance can be seen in the role of Tiferet, wherein the conflicting forces are harmonized, and creation flowers forth. Tiferet also balances Netzach and Hod in a similar manner. In that case Hod can be seen as the intellect where Netzach is seen as emotion.

“I am the glory at the heart of all things”

Here she exhibits God’s glory and the beyonder was outclassed…

Before you say it’s the beyonder’s powers, I would show the full scans of everything that happened and how it’s not his powers….

This is the beyonder giving Rachel a portion of his powers which according to him is enough to slay him (Rachel even compared the powers to green phoenix jean but let’s ignore that and move on)

He then gave Rachel two options… she has the option to slay him or save her friends

So Rachel chooses to save her friends with some portion of his powers because using all of it would’ve destroy the world

She confronts the beyonder

Then she planned to use his powers for something else and as you can see, it is confirmed that if she went against the beyonder with his own powers (that is if the beyonder is fighting back for his powers) she would get stomped hard that he would even rip out his energy from her (but if the beyonder wants her to kill him, he would do nothing but stand and let her use the energy, this would make sense as you read further)

Rachel used his powers as well as the life force of the X men to destroy the m’kraan crystal (she was basically trying to kill everyone including the beyonder so that the next universe would not suffer his madness)

She couldn’t do it

she cast herself out and returned back the life forces of everyone sending them back home (giving them back their lives) and she confirms the beyonder would kill her and everyone, there is no hope (because entering the sphere of the crystal, trying to destroy it by tapping into it with the sheer power she had and failing to do so by fixing back everything drained her of those powers)

Then the beyonder came back for his powers (not knowing she has used them up… the beyonder confirmed that if he wants his powers back she is getting wrecked with no difficulty, this is what I meant would make sense if you read further)

Before, he agreed to let her kill him with his powers, now, he changed his mind and it was confirmed twice that if he wants his power back he would beat her up and take what belongs to him without difficulty… (I have already explained that Rachel lacked his powers because she used them up and I have already proven that even if we imagine she had his powers, it still doesn’t make a difference when he is fighting back for his powers)

Here, Rachel blasted him with all she had, that is the infinite glory of TOAA (the beyonder was completely outmatched)

He couldn’t bear it… he even stated he never “dreamed” “he never imagined” “he never conceived”

“he sought his power but this is far far more than even he can bear”

TWO: God’s mercy

The first three of the ten sephirot are the attributes of the intellect, while chesed is the first sephira of the attribute of action. In the kabbalistic Tree of life, its position is below Chokhmah, across from Gevurah and above Netzach. It is usually given four paths: to chokhmah, gevurah, tiphereth, and netzach(some Kabbalists place a path from chesed to binah as well.)

The Bahir[17] states, “What is the fourth (utterance): The fourth is the righteousness of God, His mercies and kindness with the entire world. This is the right hand of God.”[18]Chesed manifests God’s absolute, unlimited benevolence and kindness.[13]

The angelic order of this sphere is the Hashmallim, ruled by the Archangel Zadkiel. The opposing Qliphah is represented by the demonic order Gamchicoth (or Gha’agsheblah), ruled by the ArchdemonAstaroth.

“The roaring flame of mercy”

She is the light where the creator’s dream took its form

the true m’kraan crystal/nexus of all realities contained the white hot room before but now in new X men #154 the white hot room contains it which makes the white hot room the true nexus of all realities… other versions of the m’kraan crystal are avatars spread across the omniverse (existing in every universe simultaneously but if an avatar is destroyed it would doom marvel omniverse)… but the true crystal resides in the white hot room and not out of it which makes the white hot room the true nexus of all realities

man thing merged with Adam k’admon and became the keeper of the dream (with the divine creator’s staff)

the dream of the divine creator is the true nexus of all realities which is also the white hot room

“The sum and substance of life and hope and dreams”

don’t forget that it can trancend this

that is why only her avatars are the only ones who can halt the destruction of the avatar of the m’kraan crystal


The phoenix is where everything sprang out of

Here she exhibits his mercy

THREE: God’s wrath/judgment

Gevurah is the fifth of the ten Sefirot and second of the emotive attributes in Creation, and which corresponds to the second day of creation[3] (Zohar 2:127b). In the Bahir it says “What is the fifth (utterance)? Fifth is the great fire of God, of which it says ‘let me see no more of this great fire, lest I die’ (Deut 18:16). This is the left hand of God”.[4]

Gevurah is understood as God’s mode of punishing the wicked and judging humanity in general. It is the foundation of stringency, absolute adherence to the letter of the law, and strict meting out of justice. This stands in contrast to Chesed.

We thus speak of God’s primary modes of action as being the kindness and unaccountability of Chesed, versus the stringency and strict accountability of Gevurah. It is called “might” because of the power of God’s absolute judgment.

“The roaring flame of terrible judgment”

Here she exhibits his wrath and judgment!

There are many more showings of her aspects exhibiting what she throughly is but this is enough !

the phoenix itself (true form) is an aspect of the God of marvel (she represents three aspects) as proven above, she is also the heart of all that is!

This is another evidence that the phoenix is part God:

here TOAA confirms the construction worker to be an aspect of his being

“I build with many hands”

“they are themselves but also me”

“I am as I am”

Which further confirms phoenix Taaia’s statements on the construction worker being God (he is an aspect of God and also an aspect of the phoenix as confirmed in the same scans above)

The phoenix is part TOAA as I have proven above and now!

The Great Redeemer

Votes: 1948

After the events of Darkhold Omega, after Wanda Maximoff absorb Chthon, how do you think powerful is the Scarlet Witch?

My Girl is broken.

I mean, she was already insanely powerful, but with the Cthon amp, she’s officially ascended to being a living cosmic horror. Let’s go over Cthon’s feats.

Cthon was the first user of black magic

Cthon’s place transcends time and space

Turns Dr Strange and Wiccan to Stone

One-Shot Doctor Strange

Cthon is above all of Asgard and Thor

Cthon Reverberates through it’s dimension, which transcends time and space, and a hundred more

Cthon transcends time and space again

Cthon is consistently said to be the strongest Elder God

An Elder God below Cthon has powers that can drown the Transfinite


Anything About Everything

Votes: 3723

Can the white Phoenix of the crown transcend the white hot room?

The answer is yes and i am going to explain it in both the comics way and the Kabalah way but first i want to thank AEKC i wouldn’t have came to that conclusion without ther answer of how powerful is WPOTC be sure to check it out

Okay first am going to explain it in the comics way first my frind ask the writer of Phoenix resurrection the return of Jean Grey issue 5 if WPOTC can really transcend the white hot room and his answer was yes

Second people always think that the scan was talking about the marvel Omniverse and that WPOTC transcend from the universe to the white hot room sense White hot r

Mann Edward

Votes: 9007

Who would win, White Phoenix (Jean Grey) or Multi-Eternity and Infinity?

White Phoenix Of The Crown

Phoenix Force is born between the voids of state of being and help to regrow creation after it’s destroyed being Beyond life and death of Creation

As well as it states that the Phoenix Force is an immortal indestructible immutable manifestations of the Prime Universal Force of life derived from the psyche of all living beings across every plane of existence

Phoenix is not merely a force of nature but an improbable hybrid of life and death of love and destruction it is perhaps the most transformative power the universe has ever seen and thus throughout the ages a constan


Votes: 7445

Who do you think will win, White Phoenix or Knull?

White Phoenix craps on Knull and burns his army out of existence.

The Phoenix Force itself is already more powerful than Knull.


Votes: 3014

Is Phoenix Cyclops more powerful than Phoenix Jean Grey?


The power and control over the Phoenix itself that Jean has exhibited is far above that of Cyclops.

It’s stated time and again that no host is as good as Jean, and that Jean is the perfect host.

If they were to ever fight, she could simply reclaim the Phoenix piece inside of him

The Queen wins. As usual.

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